China: The Art of Negotiation

To Negotiate: To try to reach an agreement or compromise by discussion with others

Here in the US, it seems like we only truly negotiate in big corporate deals or at the flea market. There's no middle ground at all. The closest we come to that is places like Ebay where we flat out offer how much we're willing to pay for things and let a system do the work for us to get up to that point (Though if you ask me, it's looking more and more like Amazon every day but not nearly as nice). Oh, and of course, if we bulk buy we often get a discount(God, I love Amazon's subscription plans on my gluten free component!). Our legal system even gets in on a little of the action with plea bargaining and fun things like that. *grin* but why is that? Why is it so limited?

Negotiation? Says who? Mine!

In China, almost everything is up for negotiation. Admittedly, they have places like Silk Alley, the Pearl Alley, and the Yuyuan Market that are as a tourist attraction but everywhere we went except for the big box chains seemed to be open to negotiation. On our first night, A got his little sister a present at a store that looked like it might have been a little chain store but when we didn't want to pay the price a aisle associate offered us and we turned away to keep looking, knowing we could find it cheaper elsewhere, she began bargaining hard. It was a classy looking store with aisles and stickers and everything. By the end of the trip, we found a few general rules for figuring out what was negotiable and what was not as well as the rules for negotiation.

1. If the price is stamped on a tag, there's a pretty good chance it's negotiable unless it's a big box store such as RT mart, Walmart, Carrefour, etc. But usually those stores have electronic tags just like here. I thought I'd taken a picture of one, but I didn't and I can't even find one on the internet. Usually, the tags are green with a red price stamp in the center. All prices are in yuan.
2. If the person nearest the item you're looking at has a calculator. This is a near 100% proof positive that they're willing to negotiate.
3. Person on the street trying to sell you something. Including street vendor stalls except for food (most of the time)? NEGOTIABLE! (big exception to this rule is food markets where you get raw ingredients. There you can negotiate! a nice sized package of Saffron,  even bigger package of Sichuan pepper (Szechuan pepper), gobi berries, 4 jasmine bloom tea buds all for $100 yuan total or $15 USD....hehehehe)
4. If you start to walk away and they stop you, yell towards you, or grab you, it's negotiable.
5. If they ask you how many you want to buy.
6. Sometimes they'll just flat out say that they'll give you a good price. It's not the best price, but it's better than the price they put on the tags. Hehehe. So they're not....lying persa. XD
7. Medical supplies and restaurants are not usually negotiable except for huge parties and even then you do need to be able to speak the language or be a native.
8. Just because it's high end doesn't mean it's not up for negotiation, you just have to work it more carefully and don't attempt unless you actually know what you're looking at.
9. If they start out by telling you how you are their first customer of the day and need you to open their store.
10. Tell them you can't afford it and they lower the price immediately.

Now for the 'rules' of actual negotiation in China. First rule is there are no rules. Ancient Chinese saying "If there is a rule, there is a way around it".


1. If you want a good deal, you have to work for it. Patience and time to get the best deals.

2.  Use a little Mandarin to butter the wheel and deal.

Ni Hao (Knee How) Hello
Ni Hao Ma (Knee How ma) How are you?
Dwor Show Chyen (Doo war show Chi yen) How much is it?
Tai Guile (Too Guy lure) Too expensive
Xie Xie(Shay Shay) Thank you

Bu yao (Boo Yow) No thanks

3. Be friendly and smile. Don't get angry with them no matter what. You can get into serious trouble. You're the outsider. If you think they're offering you crazy prices, tell them so, but do it with a smile.

4. Whatever price they give you, start at around 10% of that for your first price for tourist style goods such as table runners, chopsticks, supposed cloisonne items,  'silk' pajamas, tea sets, purses, luggage etc. Start at 15-20% of more unique items like paintings, figurines, things you -know- are of good material or workmanship. (And don't go over there thinking you can spot a fake in a second, they are scary good at copying brands, logos, trademarks and such.) Fake Cloisonne bracelets should run you about $1 USD. I'll go into some info about Cloisonne and explain the fakes and real thing next week probably.

Blue/Silver Reversible Kung Fu Shirt 3/$45 USD

5. Never pay more than 40% of the original price quote. EVER. Ideally, most of the time, your price should fall  between 25-35% of that first price quote and if you're getting multiples of something (Doesn't matter how many, even 2 should get you a discount) no more than 25% of the original quote. I got A and two other of the important men in my life these magnificent Kung fu jackets/shirts/whatever. 3 of them cost me 200 yuan. Or about $30 USD. That's total. Not each. And each one is reversible, so it's like I got six of them. Could I have gotten them for cheaper? Maybe, but I considered it a deal plus it was lunch time and we were late. The total price is about what I would have paid for just one of them here.

And the original price quote for 1? 950 yuan.

6. Walk away. If they seem to only be slowly inching down in price. Like they say 1000, you say 100, and then they only go down to 980? Walk away. They will stop you, yell at you or even grab you. But this only works in the beginning. They will grab you. Remember, you have no personal space in China. It does not exist. I've seen them try and cram 10 people in a 5x5 elevator before. Unfortunately, I was also in it already. >_<

7.  Other tactic they will try is asking you to give them your best price. You can do this a few times, but this gives them a chance to call you crazy or to give some pity story about how they need to eat/their boss will never forgive them/etc. Just start to walk away, and they'll start lowering again. I like to tell them that I'm a student (which was true) and that I don't want to give them a bad price if I'm in a "I-could-take-it-or-leave-it-mode". That usually got me some GREAT prices pretty quickly. Which, of course, meant I ended up buying. ^_^;;

Chinese Tea Set for 6 and 2 rice bowls for $15 USD

8. Go to a stall just a few feet away and look at their stuff. This works best on not busy days so they can see you milling about and make them think that you want it and they just need to go down a bit more. We got this gorgeous tea set down from 850 yuan to 80 through this tactic. Just started poking at other stores where they sold similar stuff that he could see us at. We got him down to 125 before we left first. But as he gave us the 80 he'd been refusing, I asked him to keep the change from the 100 yuan bill I'd given him if he'd throw in the two pretty rice bowls I'd liked. He did it without question or arguement at all so I know he was still doing okay. So we got the set and two rice bowls for 100 yuan total or about $15 USD and they are gorgeous.

9. Show me the money! If you show them the money, they will also be likely to bring the price down. So make sure you have bills of various denominations and that they are hidden in multiple pockets. (I have a backpack purse that I wear on my front with hidden pockets in the back, the middle and front of the purse, but this way it also won't get ripped off). But be careful, some of them will grab your money and not give it back. You can do a few things with even this if they do. If its a small amount, like less than you're willing to pay for the item. Tell them, either give me the item for that much or give me my money back, they'll almost always give you the item for that much. They can get in major trouble for theft (thought not as much if you're a tourist). A got his nice new silk robe through this method while I was busy with another deal and didn't notice. They like playing but they will have no issues taking your money, which leads me to 'rule' 10.

10. PLAY THE GAME! They will take your money if you give it to them, but they do enjoy playing the game. As long as they are smiling, they are still making some profit. We had a member of our group get kicked out of stalls before, but he still got his deals. I don't play like that. I go in with a price I think is reasonable and then one that I'm possibly willing to go up to based on unique factors and I NEVER let them go above that. If I think it's worth $10 USD, that's all I'm willing to pay. Even if I know I could get them down to $5 USD, I have to decide if it's worth my time to do so. I was very happy with the prices I got for the kung fu shirts, so even though the lady was still smiling when I left, I don't mind giving her a bit more profit. I still got a deal for me. Don't forget to say Xie Xie with a smile when you leave. It's always good to leave good feelings wherever you go. Never know when you'll need to come back.

 

China: Love in the Middle Kingdom (now with pics!)

So got back from China last night and I'm still hopelessly in love with the Middle Kingdom. It might have just a little to do with the HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE service level of San Fransisco airport and frustration with my trip mates. Beijing was amazing and Shanghai was...nice.

So after that completely ambiguous summary, I should probably get to the nitty gritty. I'm going to try and do a few summary posts here and there over the course of the next month about my various types of experiences in China, each one focusing on a different aspect but it can really be summed up with Beijing still feels connected to both old and new worlds while Shanghai feels like Las Vegas and New York had a Ugly Bastard Love Child who gets a new facelift every few years because mommy feels guilty for throwing it across the pacific for boarding school so they don't have to deal with it.

Shanghai via night cruise

Entering Shanghai

I've been lucky and never really had many issues when traveling, but then again I've always been in pretty good condition when I travel and having to travel while incapacitated has really opened my eyes to the way that the service industry tends to treat disabled people and I am completely outraged.

Not the carry out but close in taste.

During my trip, I slightly twisted my ankle twice (once at the Great Wall and once at the Forbidden City) but managed to recover by not going out the night after,but the second day before we left, I stepped off the tour bus wrong though and it all came back to me in crippling glory. So instead of going to the Shanghai Urban Exhibition Center, I ended up staying around the hotel barely able to walk more than a block without crying in pain. Luckily, A was with me and he babied me, adjusted my pillows and went out and got me food as well as an ankle brace. We ended up with a very nice black pepper steak that was very yummy.

But the day we left, A had to take all of the luggage to the bus to go to the airport. This was fine, and they even arranged for a wheelchair for me as well as upgraded both of us to Economy Plus. Which trust me, on an 12 hour flight helps tremendously. It gave me enough legroom to sprawl out and actually sleep a bit. Our problems, as mentioned before, started in San Fransisco. Admittedly, thanks to China's government interference, our flight was 2 hours late in getting started and we only had a 3 hour layover window.

So when we got to SFO, we were in a rush and I was still in a wheelchair...They had 3 people at the gate to push 8 people in wheelchairs. So we ended up playing Leapfrog to get to Immigration. We then got a special green tag that was SUPPOSED to get us through everything quickly. Immigration was relatively painless but then we went to grab our bags that  had been checked because on International Flights you have to uncheck and then recheck bags for domestic flights. A got lost while trying to get a cart so he wouldn't have  to hand carry 4 carryon bags plus our two Checked bags, which he was handling that and my crankiness, pain and such with the best sense of humor of ANY man. (He's a keeper, mum. *grin*), but we looked for the bags while waiting on him.

We found my bag, but could not find his. This was not helped by the fact his bag was black. Just black. No duct tape or distinguishing marks at all except for his bright green address tag. After about five minutes of searching, we can't find it and another flight is being put on that belt so we had to leave. We found A and did another look through. Still no bag. So we piled everything on, and despite having our 'handler' leave, the guy who was supposed to be in charge of the bagging area wheeled me to a place where they could take us to security. Now keep in mind we have these green tags that are supposed to get us through security pretty quickly.

Instead, they ignored us, and pushed me over to the side and made A go through the whole shebang. So he's on the other side of security and I'm on the opposite...and still no one's come to help me. Apparently one lady was just standing there, ignoring the call for her to do her job until A almost literally grabs her and asks her to do her job. She stated then that she was about to go on break and he asks her again to do it. She finally does and it's over very quickly, but this is after I'm sitting there like a bump on a log for 15 more minutes. At this point, this was when our flight was supposed to leave. Luckily for us, there was something wrong and our flight got delayed just in time, and it wasn't for us. xp

But A had to leave the cart and so now he's stuck with 4 carryon bags and 1 checked bags and trying to push me too, since no one bothered to make sure there was anyone to assist us once we got past security.  Finally, someone was about to leave and saw us struggling and when A asked, he was happy to help and then we FINALLY began to book it through the airport, making it to the plane just in time. Then of course, we had to wait a bit more for the true delay before we could take off.

I haven't flown as much as some, but I average about 2-3 flights a year or so over the past 5 years and that is truly the most horrific experience I've had. If I had been a normal handicapped person and been treated like that every day I've flown or gone somewhere, I'm sure I can see how they feel so down on themselves. They are treated like less than human. There was a guy in front of me in security who had an oxygen tank who was still there when I left and he seemed on the verge of tears while people just ignored him.

Even on this trip, with people who do not understand Celiac and gluten sensitivity, I've felt like I was a bit less than human. Like I was some alien because I couldn't drink beer or eat udon noodles. I never want to feel like that again, and if nothing else, this has reaffirmed my resolve. It is not Living Without, it is Fully Living, which includes having a healthy functioning system that does not having me fatigued, scatterbrained and in pain so I can enjoy every food I eat. So what if I can't have a few things out there, many people out there are picky eaters and won't even try different ways. I get to explore and create and that makes me very happy!

First meal I made once we were back in US. So never got sick of Chinese style food. NEVER!